Street Brawler 46 Trim Final - 392whp@24psi, w/Exhaust!

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CodingParadox

New member
goldfish":3tlhqg2t said:
Nice...very nice. Have any of you seen any dyno plots comparing the SB46 with the ATS TD06 on a car with almost the same mods? I've got everything but the turbo and EMS (including full head work with OS valves and stock cams) and I'm debating between the SB46 and the TD06 (most likely with the ATS Rom tune.) I dont really want to spend much more than 4 more grand to finish the engine.

What made you decide between the SB and the ATS TD06?

I'm just looking to finish out the performance on the car with something fun on the street and even more fun on track. I think i can get pretty close to 300whp on the ATS kit - which would be enough for me. Do you have any thoughts on that considering your experience with the SB?
Click to expand...

If you want the easy cheap solution go with the TD06 and ROM tune - the SB46 will require an EMS to get the most out of it.

The TD06 is a worse turbo - less max power, but spools the same or slower than the SB46... The kit also isn't nearly as well-made. Also, Kris is a local guy for me so I'd had lots of contact with him before, and during this whole process, all of which has been great.

As long as by "track" you mean "road courses" and not "drag strip" then yeah, the spool is great. For a drag strip, screw it, just get a giant turbo and cams. The reason I got the SB46 is to get the biggest quickest spooling turbo I could.
 
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goldfish

New member
Cool...ya - by track i meant road courses. If i want a drag car I'll buy a Supra. Unfortunately for me, the only reputable tuners are over 200 miles away. I develop software, but I dont know enough about tuning to want to give it a try without learning from someone else for a long time. Over the last year I've been working too much to have time to enjoy the car during the week....especially when it isn't running because I'm doing someting to it. I just want to be done with it so i can take it out for a drive after a long day of work...
 
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Simba

New member
goldfish":2fkv1xce said:
If i want a drag car I'll buy a Supra.
Click to expand...

If you want a drag car, buy a Mustang. Supras suck at it. :D

'course, that doesn't stop people from flinging the things into the 8's, but like the AT, Supras were designed to turn.
 
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grip addict

New member
so when do you see full spool by david? i'm really curious to see how it compares to the stock turbo as far as that is concerned. if you have some time, a video of the boost guage would be awsome proof of how quick you see your power.
 
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CodingParadox

New member
I think it gets to 24psi at like 4700. 200wtq by 3700.

I don't have a video camera, so that'd make it kinda hard to do any vids. I'll let the dyno plot speak for itself whenever Kris posts it.
 
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furpo

New member
david, well done on the result.


i was just wondering if you where logging the delta - p on the dyno (difference between intake and exhaust manifold pressures)? the reason i ask is that you state you have reached the limit of the cylinder head flow and that also your turbo turns on nice and yearly. this would suggest to me that the turbine side of the turbo maybe starting to become a restriction which is usually the case when you start making less power the more you turn the boost up. when a turbine becomes a restriction exhaust manifold pressures go through the roof and the delta - p becomes less (i.e. there is less of a 'head' accross the cylinder head).

anyway just food for thought and it would be interesting to see what affect going to a larger turbine housing has.

roger
 
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hinkle

New member
Simba":1r53a24r said:
goldfish":1r53a24r said:
If i want a drag car I'll buy a Supra.
Click to expand...

If you want a drag car, buy a Mustang. Supras suck at it. :D

'course, that doesn't stop people from flinging the things into the 8's, but like the AT, Supras were designed to turn.
Click to expand...

that is the worst advice ive ever heard :p
i hope ur talking about those huge turbos sucking
 
C

CodingParadox

New member
dyno_24psi_race.jpg


Torque dropped off heinously compared to open DP. New exhaust should pop me well over 400whp...
 
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Hic

Member
Hi Coding,

very nice result, completely enough in my opinion. I was wandering what was your EGT (before turbo) on WOT? Did you measure it? Also, iI think Furpo is on the right track when saying that exhaust housing on the turbo is being restrictive...you will gain someting going to full 3" (without resonator", but also 3.5" exhaust would do you some good :)
 
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jzz30

New member
great numbers! the curve flattens out at higher rpms still huh? i guess this is always going to be a problem for these motors. mine does that too... of course i dont have nearly the same power :cry:
 
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CodingParadox

New member
We didn't measure the EGTs... =/

The VE of the motor drops off on stock cams past 6k - any power you push through it will always do that.
 
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Hic

Member
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furpo

New member
try not to think of the cylinder head having a flow limit. it does not, the reason is that it is always possible to increase delta - p (the head). an analogy is when siphoning fuel out of one tank into the other. it is always possible to increase the volume movement (flow) of the fuel by making one tank higher that it previously was (increasing the head). the other option to increase the flow is to make the hose bigger which using the analogy is what you are trying to do with doing work on your cylinder head.

also a very good way to find the restriction in the cylinder port is to lightly dust the port with flour or talcum powder and then slowly open the valve with the head on the flow bench (or even just with a vacuum accross it). the point where the flour disapears first is the greatest restriction. i have electronic manometres on my flow bench and an electronic dial gadge so i can log the flow as i dynamically open the valve and correct it back to a standard value. even with all that the flour is the best feature. sometimes i check my findings by leaving the valve in a static position and increasing the head across the cylinder head to see if the flour disapears from the same point.

roger
 
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ruffneck

New member
Nice numbers. Why wouldn't you change intake cam at least? I understand you want overall power, but I have more overall power now with just a 256 intake cam...
 
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CodingParadox

New member
I don't want overall power, I want low end power. If you have dyno proof that I lose NOTHING in the low end going to a bigger intake cam only, then sure I'll do it.
 
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ruffneck

New member
just checking over my dyno graphs...keep in mind this is from 2 different tuners, on an old motor versus rebuilt, but both on stock specs (new motor with lower compression though - 8.5-1, and NO TVIS), same turbo (CT27), and the dynos have almost identical calibration.
Stock cams - 2800 rpm - 54kw
HKS 256 inlet, stock exhaust retarded 7 degrees, no tvis - 2800 rpm-55kw

The real difference is in the torque though, from a drivers point of view it just pulls alot harder lower.
Do what you want with this, I just want to see your car get all it can, although your current figures are impressive enough :D .
I'm thinking of getting the SB46 kit as my next upgrade, have you got any pics of it on the car? How did you run the water lines to and from the turbo?
And with the Aussie Exhaust corkscrew thing, I noticed that and though it was a bit funny too...does it actually restrict the flow in half, or just divide it into 2 streams? (put mine on 2 years ago, can't remember it properly)..
Good luck, and may the HP be with you!!
 
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