Caster solutions (was: St165 whiteline anti-lift kit)

Suspension and other discussion

Caster solutions (was: St165 whiteline anti-lift kit)

Postby CMS-GT4 » Fri Nov 04, 2005 3:02 pm

Anyone use it? I am trying to find more info to what it does.

I contacted whiteline and they didn't seem to know much about it or if it could be used on a 185.

I am really interested in this if it will work on a 185 to set caster.
Members don't see the above ad. Register now - it's free!
Last edited by CMS-GT4 on Tue Jun 13, 2006 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Coldiron
92 st185 (205 swap) | 03 350Z Track (sold) | 13 Pilot | 17 Mazda3
www.noritoy.com | noritoy.deviantart.com | http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=19891
User avatar
CMS-GT4
GTSilver Member
 
Posts: 10412
Images: 7
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:12 pm
Location: St Louis Area (IL)

1992 Toyota Celica

Postby omgitsroy326 » Fri Nov 04, 2005 3:36 pm

subaru people say it's one of the best upgrades on their cars....



Anti lift..


when launch or break... it doesn't dip
FOR SALE>> CHECK FOR SALE FORUM (IS350)
omgitsroy326
Established Member
 
Posts: 1807
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2004 2:14 am
Location: Los angeles

Postby Arknack » Sat Nov 05, 2005 3:46 pm

Yes anti-lift wrx's don't use it they try to get rid of the anti lift, anti-lift kits would make it so the rear end will not squat as much on a launch. They change the degree for the camber so that it is still within 90 degree's but lessening the amount of squat in the rear end/

-Matty
Matt - 88 st165(working on)
86 Rx7 (selling)
90 Celica GT-S(slow DD)
Arknack
Club Member
 
Posts: 192
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 10:20 pm
Location: Waynesboro, PA

Postby edv-tek » Mon Nov 14, 2005 8:55 pm

Anyone use it? I am trying to find more info to what it does.



Not sure if you could get it to work on a 185. I am using it on the ST165. I am not sure exactly how it works other than it changes the geometry of the steering. The kit consists of some spacers in the steering assembly. Less understeer is the result. It is a great improvement. -ed
Ed Vaughan
White Supercharged Previa LE Alltrac w/beige leather 208K and counting
1988 Mercedes Benz 560SL 42K
Maryland
User avatar
edv-tek
Club Member
 
Posts: 370
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 6:18 pm
Location: Maryland

Postby CMS-GT4 » Mon Nov 14, 2005 9:03 pm

I guess we need to figure out if the 165 caster is the same. If not, then maybe this brings it close to what the 185 caster is. If they are the same, then I want to figure out how to do something simular for the car.

Any pics of where its installed? Do you know what you caster is after the install?
Coldiron
92 st185 (205 swap) | 03 350Z Track (sold) | 13 Pilot | 17 Mazda3
www.noritoy.com | noritoy.deviantart.com | http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=19891
User avatar
CMS-GT4
GTSilver Member
 
Posts: 10412
Images: 7
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:12 pm
Location: St Louis Area (IL)

1992 Toyota Celica

Postby jjpetek » Wed Nov 23, 2005 7:47 pm

I also have the Super Pro anti-lift/increased-castor kit installed (same as whiteline). I think it is important to differentiate the anti-lift kit, with the increased castor kit. There are three bushing options: Anti-lift, Increase Castor, and Anti-lift with Increased castor.

Anti-Lift:
Most often anti-lift for any vehicle is established by changing the angle of the lower control arm pivot axis with reference to the chassis. If we consider the lower control arm to push on the chassis under accelleration, then the angle of lower control will either drive the chassis up, or drive the chassis down. So, when looking at the car from the SIDE, if we move the front mounting point of the front lower control arm down (or move the rear mounting point up), the lower control arm will drive the chassis down, thus reducing front lift and therefor weight transfer. In the rear, obviously we would want to create lift, not reduce it.

Increased Castor:
Changing the angle of the control arm from the side view does not affect castor. However, if we consider the front wheel from the TOP view, it is clear that if the rear control mounting point is moved outboard, the lower ball joint and therefor wheel is moved forward (towards the front of the car). If the bottom of the strut moves forward and the top of the strut stays in place, increased castor is achieved.

So......
In regards to All Trac bushings, these changes are made very easily. The front control arm bushings (for the rearward control arm mount) are simply ECCENTRIC, and depending on wether they are offset upward only, outward only, or upward and outward determines wether you have anti-lift only, increased castor only, or anti lift and increased castor. The reality is, you can also decrese castor and create lift as well if these are not installed properly, which is why driver and passenger sides are specified.

I got about 1 degree of increased castor from my bushings and havn't "quantified" the anti-lift characterstics, but don't expect increased castor from anti-lift only bushings. :smokes:
_______________________________________
Jason Petek
Addict Motorsport Design
jjpetek
Club Member
 
Posts: 96
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:25 am
Location: Woodinville, WA

Postby CMS-GT4 » Fri Dec 02, 2005 7:18 pm

Thanks for the reply. It helps out a bit.

Did you install this on a 165? Can anyone posts pics of the 165 mount points so we can compare them to a 185? If this could work on the 185 or give us direction to make something simular to the 185, that would be great.
Coldiron
92 st185 (205 swap) | 03 350Z Track (sold) | 13 Pilot | 17 Mazda3
www.noritoy.com | noritoy.deviantart.com | http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=19891
User avatar
CMS-GT4
GTSilver Member
 
Posts: 10412
Images: 7
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:12 pm
Location: St Louis Area (IL)

1992 Toyota Celica

Postby jjpetek » Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:38 pm

_______________________________________
Jason Petek
Addict Motorsport Design
jjpetek
Club Member
 
Posts: 96
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:25 am
Location: Woodinville, WA

Postby CMS-GT4 » Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:29 pm

Let me see if I understand how caster is changed.

The stopper ring on the bushing is larger than stock and the bolts are longer allowing the base to be offset slightly more forward which in turns changes caster?
Coldiron
92 st185 (205 swap) | 03 350Z Track (sold) | 13 Pilot | 17 Mazda3
www.noritoy.com | noritoy.deviantart.com | http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=19891
User avatar
CMS-GT4
GTSilver Member
 
Posts: 10412
Images: 7
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:12 pm
Location: St Louis Area (IL)

1992 Toyota Celica

Postby jjpetek » Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:00 pm

Not exactly. The control arm does not change it's position in that direction. In the picture, if the control arm pivot (that slips inside in the bush) is moved outward (away from car centerline, or to the right in the pic), the wheel is moved forward because of the L shaped nature of the control arm. This is how caster is changed. The bush is eccentric. This is also how anti-lift is created.
_______________________________________
Jason Petek
Addict Motorsport Design
jjpetek
Club Member
 
Posts: 96
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:25 am
Location: Woodinville, WA

Postby CMS-GT4 » Mon May 22, 2006 5:46 pm

I wanted to revive this thread.

They have added a pdf on the whiteline site with the anti-lift kit. From the looks of it, it should be easy to mimik.

I am going to see if intiald will compare his 165 and 185 control arm. If everything fits the same, I will just order the 165 kit.

If not, I will try and copy it. Once the car is running (hpe the end of this week) I am taking it to a pro to get the car aligned right and I want o get it all in one whack.
Coldiron
92 st185 (205 swap) | 03 350Z Track (sold) | 13 Pilot | 17 Mazda3
www.noritoy.com | noritoy.deviantart.com | http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=19891
User avatar
CMS-GT4
GTSilver Member
 
Posts: 10412
Images: 7
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:12 pm
Location: St Louis Area (IL)

1992 Toyota Celica

Postby furpo » Mon May 22, 2006 9:57 pm

in my experence the easest way to go about adjusting the caster with a mcpherson strut type suspension is to make new bottom arms and caster arms.

roger
don't mind me, i always need help
furpo
Club Member
 
Posts: 897
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:45 am
Location: new zealand

Postby CMS-GT4 » Tue May 23, 2006 3:30 pm

Got any links or pics?
Coldiron
92 st185 (205 swap) | 03 350Z Track (sold) | 13 Pilot | 17 Mazda3
www.noritoy.com | noritoy.deviantart.com | http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=19891
User avatar
CMS-GT4
GTSilver Member
 
Posts: 10412
Images: 7
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:12 pm
Location: St Louis Area (IL)

1992 Toyota Celica

Postby CMS-GT4 » Fri May 26, 2006 4:32 am

Here is a question about this caster kit. Is the bushing inner cylinder cut at an angle?

I asked whiteline about development for a 185 version and they really don't feel there a reason to bother in their favor.

I wonder if superpro might be up to the job. Anyone have contacts?
Coldiron
92 st185 (205 swap) | 03 350Z Track (sold) | 13 Pilot | 17 Mazda3
www.noritoy.com | noritoy.deviantart.com | http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=19891
User avatar
CMS-GT4
GTSilver Member
 
Posts: 10412
Images: 7
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:12 pm
Location: St Louis Area (IL)

1992 Toyota Celica

Postby ___Scott___ » Fri May 26, 2006 5:03 pm

CMS-GT4 wrote:Anyone have contacts?

Talk to Josh at http://www.185performance.com/
I'm sure if he doesn't already have a solution, he'll know who to talk to about getting one.
Scott
Colorado Springs, CO - USA
SONY
Opera - The better browser
User avatar
___Scott___
Established Member
 
Posts: 2078
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:30 pm
Location: - - USA - - Colorado Springs, CO

Next

Return to Handling and Braking

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest