Longivity of 3sgte engines under race conditions?

J

jchealey

New member
We have raced our all-trac twice now and had the same result. Both engines, (first a 165, then a 185) started blowing oil out the dipstick and eventually a knock starteded in the engine. The know in the first engine sounded like a rod bearing. The knock in the second engine was undetermined.
So are we pushing these engines too hard? I have a race team and know at least two of them are pushing the rpms at times.

So a few questions beyond your opinions for the above issues.

1. I have two 165 engines that need rebuilding. Are they worth anything?
2. What would it cost to rebuild the 185 engine? IE: If we do the work ourselves.

Can this turbo take race conditions?

Jerry
 
J

jchealey

New member
The engines were stock except for headers on the 185. Although I guess you could also say the 185 is using a 165 computer and wiring harness. And the 165 intercooler.

At one point in the race, it seemed to run hot and needed a gallon of water into the radiator. I assume the need for coolant was an indicator the engine was having problems.

I noted that there was another post that indicated an adaptor was needed to use a 185 JDM eingine to a 165 ECU? We are low budget racers so did not do that.
 
L

lumbercis

Moderator
It's not the engine.

Most "race" engines are rebuilt for racing purposes. You are trying to race a "street" engine, which, unless you bought an all new longblock from Toyota, is pushing 20 years old. You may need to do at least a stock rebuild depending on what type of racing you are doing.

So what type of racing are you doing? What classes are you running, as some have restrictions on what engine modifications they will allow.

I'm no expert, but for life on the track, usually the cooling system is the most important thing to make sure is in tip-top shape. An aftermarket oil cooler and proper ducting for the cooling system are good bets.

Basically make sure the engine is working PERFECTLY in stock form before you start racing it. It doesn't sound to me like the engines you raced were in great shape to begin with.
 
S

Shaggz00

Active member
TEAMFaint":2k1woepx said:
WarTowels":2k1woepx said:
could?
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lumbercis
All Trac Elite
Click to expand...
IS.
;)
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+1!

I've put my built 165 motor to the test on many occasions. The only (motor related) incident I've had in the past two years was that it started to overheat on a 95 degree day, running a rally-x with the A/C on between runs. These engines love 4k RPMs + 8)
 
J

jchealey

New member
Well, we were racing at Thunderhill (Willows) and on the straight, I know the rpms were at least 6-7. I better put a rev limiter on the car.
 
B

bridge47

New member
Sustained high G's? Dry sump systems are likely cheaper than engines. Or you could google Pre-luber. Basically keeps an amount of oil under pressure at the ready to be released in case pressure falls below set level. Added cold start bonus as well

ANY detonation at racing loads will toast engine in short order.
 
L

lumbercis

Moderator
TEAMFaint":bu8xtwdt said:
WarTowels":bu8xtwdt said:
could?
Click to expand...

lumbercis
All Trac Elite
Click to expand...

IS.

;)
Click to expand...

Hahaha, I wouldn't put too much stock in that. :smokes:

I'd suggest doing a little research in the autocross and road race sections of MR2OC and see what other people have been doing to prepare their cars for the track. Keep in mind the alltrac should be easier to cool than the MR2 since we're not mid-engined.
 
___Scott___

___Scott___

Active member
Thunderhill? Sustained high G's?

You need better oil pan with baffles to prevent your oil pump from sucking air.
 
K

klue

New member
___Scott___":c9y87e0b said:
Thunderhill? Sustained high G's?

You need better oil pan with baffles to prevent your oil pump from sucking air.
Click to expand...

ditto, biggest 3sgte flaw for racing is the oiling system.
all the race 3sgt are dry sum 503 block
 
J

jchealey

New member
So is the stock oil pump not up to the task, or is the oil pick up the issue on strong corners. IE: it needs baffles in the oil pan?
 
___Scott___

___Scott___

Active member
The stock pump should be fine, as long as it's not sucking air. The stock pan has baffles, they're just not good enough to keep the pump from sucking air during sustained high-g right hand sweepers.

As far as I know, a Moroso oil pan is the only alternative to the stock pan. Here is one thread on the Moroso pan:
http://alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php ... ght=moroso

You can search for "moroso" on the forum here and you'll find a little more info.
 
K

klue

New member
stock pump blows hard. air or no air
if you have a pre92 3sgte your even worse off as they have the smallest pump. For racing conditions you NEED to upgrade the pump if you expect to have any longevity on the bearings. saying that you also need a extra qt or two in your pan to supply the oil.
 
J

jchealey

New member
So I also see from the link that a MR2 oil pan will also hold more oil and has better baffles. Nice, Back to the Pick and Pull.
 
C

cozmic512

New member
he got that from the mr2oc forums I assume since he was directed there.

almost any motor you plan to race needs a modified oil pan. even if you are just going to do track days. You can make the baffles yourself and weld them into the stock pan to start. Just do a little research first to make sure you arent blocking anything, and keeping the oil around the pickup.
and then since you are modifying the pan anyway, you can install an accusump for an extra few quarts on standby.
I would also listen to the other opinions here about upgrading the oil pump, esp since you are rebuilding everything at this point. under braking you should have the same oil pressure as under acceleration.

and yes, blown motors are worth something. unless there is a hole in the side of it, or you detonated the cylinder so bad you cant hone it out, it is at least worth the knowledge of what not to do... :shrug:
 
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