Apex'i SAFC discussion

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celigts

New member
I'd like to see what everyone thinks about using this system on the alltrac. I can get one of these for a good price at half price in good shape to new condition.

So is it worth it for goals of 300whp with stock everything and keepin the maf (even tho it's butt ugly!) saves me money while I can.

So please entiten me on this product and if it is good and safe to use if set good.
 
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RoAdbOy

New member
i use safc since more than 3yrs.
but i use it only to fine tune my stockish car, not a 300awhp :)
my car is set to 16psi boost and has got exhaust and intake as upgrade, after install the safc i've tuned it from 9:1 to 11.5:1 afr and can feel the power now :)
but if i decide to go 300+awhp like you, i definitely use a standalone!

my recommendation is, if you want to go numbers like 300awhp, you either way need turbo, injectors etc.
you can still use safc but you will gain much much more and be safe with a standalone :) go for a vi-pec or hydra :wink:
 
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celigts

New member
Well I won't have funds for some time now so this is ideal for sure until I have some saved for the stand alone.

Thanks for the info. I've Just heard alot of ppl stories that it causes more harm then good.
 
CMS-GT4

CMS-GT4

Active member
I think mrcontrols explains why the afc is not good for our cars. You need timing control thanks to our stock ecus.
 
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gearhead313

New member
Fine tuning an already "in-tune" setup sure, there's nothing wrong there. Where it has trouble is when pulling fuel back to compensate for larger injectors. Within the map, the lower area of the tables in fuel contain much higher ignition timing numbers and not the retard you need to prevent detonation (mostly). You could battle it with lower base timing, which I did for a while with good luck, but its not the "right" way to do it.
 
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celigts

New member
Well my maf isn't properly working I don't think, it opens fully and stuff but I fucked it up a last summer when I pulled the plug and tore the connectors off the board. This I'm hoping will help resolve it and with stock injectors I was hoping this would help with running rich. Cuz I do get backfire from time to time when letting off the gas.
 
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klue

New member
safc is a big no no.

the air flow meter is exactly that, tells the ecu how much air flow is entering the engine. By forging that signal you are also suggesting the the ecu to modify the TIMING of the engine which is where the problem lies. There is no power gained by adjusting the air fuel ratio. Should you gain power from adjusting the airflow signal it is because you are fooling the ecu and it changes the timing.

To reduce the AFR, you would have to tell the ECU/AFM there is less air entering the engine than there is. With less air/load the ECU will be in a cell which has more timing than a high load area(which it actually is).
 
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celigts

New member
Then why would they make this product if it, by your statement seems more glamorous as another toy than functional.

Is it better for na then boosted?
 
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RoAdbOy

New member
safc is a very good unit, simple and cheap!
BUT!! not for the 3sgte! the most 3sgte owners who had install safc resulted with blow up their engine.
because all negative changes gives an advance to timing, but if you know what you do, trust me you can gain from it :wink:
i use it since years 'with no problems' and been happy with it.

you can see here the changes by settings:
ReG11.jpg

pic from carpron.com

as i said before, if you decideto install, let it set from a tuner or be sure what you do :)

first of all, buy a wideband unit to see your afr readings, maybe you don't need a safc :)
 
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celigts

New member
Mind I ask what the successful users have there's set too.

Got the wideband and next weekend I'll get getting my berk dp from boo guy.

Anyone wanna get technical with this? Detailed
 
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lumbercis

Moderator
You MUST read the mrcontrols site and set it up like he suggests or you're going to break something.

http://www.mrcontrols.com/primers/power.htm

Another option is to try to find an emanage ultimate (NOT blue) which can control timing independently. Take it to a professional tuner to set it up for you. This might end up being fairly expensive when you include the cost of the tuning.

If you don't want to spend the money for a professional tune you might be better off avoiding dealing with tuning altogether by getting a ROM tune from ATS. Simple plug and play solution that will support the power you are looking for without blowing your engine.

J
 
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celigts

New member
Thanks!

Great read. Had seen that in the past but it was before my alltrac and wasn't interesting seeing as I couldn't bother with any of it. I'll be following his mod steps. Gonna start getting a few more things to catch up to them. Dp and fuel pressure regulator. Already have the wideband but have to install it.
 
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