Screwed: Broken bolt extractor

psipwrd

Member
I attempted to fix my exhaust leak and made it worse with a bolt extractor kit. The extractor broke off in the block (top right hole). I tried to drill it out over the past two days but only made the hole bigger around the bottom of the extractor. It seems to be welded to the top of the hole.

The bottom stud was previously stripped and a bigger bolt was used instead of a stud. If you can't tell from the pic, the bottom right hole was stripped again while removing the bolt. The bolt was never torqued down good enough to prevent leakage, carbon deposits are all over that area.




Three things I'm considering:
1. Trying a diamond bur to drill out the top and using a time-sert on both?
2. If 1 fails, use time-sert on the bottom only.
3. Have the car towed to a machine shop.

Open to suggestions. Thanks.
 

toayoztan

Moderator
You'll need to fix both in order to get a proper seal without a leak.

If you can't take the head off yourself, I suggest taking it to a machine shop at this point. They will most likely remove the head, and drill out everything and should be able to do this straight on. They might make the hole bigger, at which point they'll use a helicoil or permacoil (my shop used permacoil on mine, very tough). If they drill it out too big, your option is to go bigger on the stud, and would have to drill the hole bigger on the exhaust manifold stud.

At that point, you may as well have them freshen up the head with a standard valve job, get your seals replaced, etc.

Bryan
 

toayoztan

Moderator
I didn't think about that, didn't occur to me you had the 9 bolt design.

The 7 bolt design works, but toyota switched to 9 in 92-93, not sure why (if it really was that much better or not).

Most manifolds are designed as 7 bolt though, so you should be fine if you can get that bottom one secured and tight properly.

Bryan
 

CMS-GT4

Active member
Last extractor I broke was removed by a carbide dremel bit. It took some time, but it ate the extractor pretty well.
 

awolo

New member
Just went through all this man. I KNOW HOW YOU FEEL!!

Only my engine was still in the car.

I broke two of those exact extractors! They are junk!
I ended up using the Left handed drill bit method, matched with a screw extractor that was actually worth a da*m.
 

celigts

New member
So if the exhaust manifold stud lets say is stripped. Don't re thread it go bigger with helicoil or just get a bigger stud?

What about just putting a bigger bolt rather then a stud?
 

psipwrd

Member
Thanks, I'll order some carbide bits and try to get the extractor out.

Last owner used a bolt instead of a stud. Now that I think about it, I'm glad I was able to pull it out by the head. Now that I ordered a perma-coil kit, I'm wishing I just got the 12mm tap to use two 12mm bolts.
 

toayoztan

Moderator
If you can salvage the original threads, chase them with tap (come in the tap and die sets).

If it is FUBAR, then buy yourself a Perma-kit, it'll have the approrpate drill bit in there along with the tap you'll need to create the threads for the perma-coil.

This way, you get to retain your original size stud, and if something happens, more than likely the perma-coil will get messed up, and perhaps living you the last option go use a bigger stud or that one stud offset like you showed.

I've never had a permacoil break on me. Then again, I've never stripped or ruined threads before from putting in a fresh bolt or nut, only b/c it came that way (rusted, couldn't get it out, etc).

When doing any work on any part of the car, ext, int, motor, etc. I always take the 2 seconds to inspect the bolt/nut/stud to see if it's worth buying a new one or possibly end up in more headache.

(I'm not saying it's your fault, but just digressing!)

Bryan
 

underscore

Well-known member
whats the purpose of using studs anyways? my far left stud was broken when I got the car, it was replaced with a helicoil but removing/installing the stud a couple times killed the helicoil. Should I say forget it and get an oversized bolt, or try a permacoil?
 

Hotrodhendrix

New member
I had one fubar on my. While manifold was off toss on a nut then toss another one on after. Grab your wrench and go at the first one. I also used a blow torch to heat it up as well. Worked for me and only cost two nuts. Bhahahaha I haz jokez.
~James
 

alltracman78

Active member
underscore":3i6bozsl said:
whats the purpose of using studs anyways?
They grip better than bolts.

That's why people use head studs instead of head bolts.

Incidentally, it's easier to line up something with studs than with a bolt, and removing a nut from a steel stud usually causes less damage than removing a steel exhaust bolt from aluminum.

When you have a stud break, heat the SHIT out of the aluminum around it and melt parrafin wax onto it.
The wax gets sucked into the gaps between the stud and head and it will come out much easier than just with heat alone.
 

underscore

Well-known member
Good info, thanks. Cause getting the mani/turbo/dp to line up with the oil lines & studs at the same time was a PITA
 

psipwrd

Member
I can't get the extractor out, the diamond burs would take weeks. Good news is the perma-coil kit went in as easy as 1-2-3 so I'm hoping to get a good seal w/o one bolt.
 

toayoztan

Moderator
Just make sure the manifold mating surface isn't warped either before putting it back on, and use new gaskets if necessary.

That one lower stud alone should be sufficient, as the earlier models and even aftermarket manifolds don't use the 9 stud setup often.

Bryan
 

psipwrd

Member
Thanks, I bought a used manifold and it arrived yesterday. Mine wasn't warped by comparison so I reused it with a new gasket. The turbo, manifold and downpipe are all together waiting for downpipe gasket. I'm hoping to have her running this weekend!
 

psipwrd

Member
And now the rant!

As I was torquing down the exhaust manifold, a third stud stripped. I took everything apart again and attempted to tap that hole but I couldn't keep it centered with the ratchet. So I ran out and bought a $44 euro tap and die kit just for the tool that holds the tap. Got it tapped and perma-coil installed. YESSS! Went to torque everything down again and the two middle bottom studs stripped! :bangshead:

It's like the block is literally rotting while I'm working on it.

I am running out of patience. I'm torn between

1. putting it together and drop it off for repairs
2. start over, order another perma-coil kit and studs
3. sell it

[/rant]
 

toayoztan

Moderator
What's stripping...the threads in the head (it's not the block, but I'm sure you knew that, but were just ranting :D ), or the actual threads on the studs where the nut goes on?

At this point, you might want to think about just removing all the studs, chasing them down with a tap to clean the threads, and putting in fresh studs.

If it seems like all your threads in the holes are just "rotting" away and that's causing you the issues, then you might want to think about putting permacoils in all of them...this allows you to go bigger to get fresh threads for the coils, and the coils of course will be strong and fresh for the studs.

(of course, don't redo the ones you've already done)

Bryan
 

Fox 21 Alpha

New member
That's horrible, if it really seems to be going that bad might just be best to take it to a machine shop.

And my last ditch solution for any broken or seized bolt was to quick a long as metal stick welded on to whatever you have left. Basically makes a permanent breaker bar....
 
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