VCE (Viscous Coupling Eliminator) group-buy feeler

Does anyone have any interest in purchasing a VCE for their All-Trac? I have been working with a reputable design engineering and manufacturing company on this and obviously the more that are made the less they will cost each... Won't be as inexpensive as VCE's were for the DSM crowd but 8-10 pieces made should keep the price under $400... I'm looking to hurry this along as they'll take a good 4-6 weeks for production and shipping, and I need mine before the end of May... Any serious buyers don't hesitate to hit me up via PM ASAP!

Thanks
-Eric

Attached pics are of the VCE design and internals of the OEM VC carrier housing that it rides in...
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CMS-GT4":1ps912dt said:
Just to clarify this will lock the center to 50/50 or just leave it open?
The front and center will remain unchanged... This will essentially be the equivalent of locking the VC to a constant 50/50 split front and rear. No waiting for the VC to engage to spin the rear diff.

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underscore

Well-known member
I wasn't aware that there was any delay unless the fluid has been damaged, either way this is a less expensive option for people than getting a rebuilt VC from Mario (if he's even still doing that).

Can these be installed with the trans still in the car or does it need to be pulled? I imagine that would impact some peoples decision to buy one.
 
underscore":1dt31w9l said:
I wasn't aware that there was any delay unless the fluid has been damaged, either way this is a less expensive option for people than getting a rebuilt VC from Mario (if he's even still doing that).

Can these be installed with the trans still in the car or does it need to be pulled? I imagine that would impact some peoples decision to buy one.
Only removal of the transfer case is needed to install this.

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underscore":awpf5bbn said:
I wasn't aware that there was any delay unless the fluid has been damaged, either way this is a less expensive option for people than getting a rebuilt VC from Mario (if he's even still doing that).

Can these be installed with the trans still in the car or does it need to be pulled? I imagine that would impact some peoples decision to buy one.
Also, aside from all of our cars VC's having 20-30 years of use/abuse on them, they also have a limit to how much power they can handle reliably... Whereas the VCE will eliminate that issue.

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Spectra1":9zxrtynr said:
I'm in for one. What are the down sides?
Not exactly sure to be honest... I've done as much research as possible to get feedback from those in the DSM world who have done it and it's a mixed bag but I haven't heard or read of anything catastrophic... Some say they've driven 5+ years daily with no issues and others say parking maneuvering exhibits some driveline binding but nothing crazy.
IMO, it's removing a weak link from the drivetrain.


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CMS-GT4

Active member
eric thompson":144ezrm3 said:
Spectra1":144ezrm3 said:
I'm in for one. What are the down sides?
Not exactly sure to be honest... I've done as much research as possible to get feedback from those in the DSM world who have done it and it's a mixed bag but I haven't heard or read of anything catastrophic... Some say they've driven 5+ years daily with no issues and others say parking maneuvering exhibits some driveline binding but nothing crazy.
IMO, it's removing a weak link from the drivetrain.


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I think tj and badn3w both made their VCS permanently locked. I remember reading about the binding at slow speeds in parking lots.
 
CMS-GT4":1sz58zev said:
eric thompson":1sz58zev said:
Spectra1":1sz58zev said:
I'm in for one. What are the down sides?
Not exactly sure to be honest... I've done as much research as possible to get feedback from those in the DSM world who have done it and it's a mixed bag but I haven't heard or read of anything catastrophic... Some say they've driven 5+ years daily with no issues and others say parking maneuvering exhibits some driveline binding but nothing crazy.
IMO, it's removing a weak link from the drivetrain.


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I think tj and badn3w both made their VCS permanently locked. I remember reading about the binding at slow speeds in parking lots.
Definitely NOT a deal breaker for me. I had a legacy GT, mostly stock, that hated to roll with the steering at full lock and none of my All-Tracs ever felt even close to what that felt like.

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underscore

Well-known member
eric thompson":2sor15ey said:
underscore":2sor15ey said:
I wasn't aware that there was any delay unless the fluid has been damaged, either way this is a less expensive option for people than getting a rebuilt VC from Mario (if he's even still doing that).

Can these be installed with the trans still in the car or does it need to be pulled? I imagine that would impact some peoples decision to buy one.
Also, aside from all of our cars VC's having 20-30 years of use/abuse on them, they also have a limit to how much power they can handle reliably... Whereas the VCE will eliminate that issue.

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I'm a bit of an odd case as I have one of Marios upgraded VCs but I'm running basically stock power and have no plans to change that.

My next stupid question, is there a benefit to go with this and leave the front open vs that shaft somebody makes (I want to say Agile Performance?) that locks out the center and uses the VC to make the front limited slip? I'm assuming leaving the front open would be beneficial for street driving in parking lots and such.
 
underscore":3s00ta80 said:
eric thompson":3s00ta80 said:
underscore":3s00ta80 said:
I wasn't aware that there was any delay unless the fluid has been damaged, either way this is a less expensive option for people than getting a rebuilt VC from Mario (if he's even still doing that).

Can these be installed with the trans still in the car or does it need to be pulled? I imagine that would impact some peoples decision to buy one.
Also, aside from all of our cars VC's having 20-30 years of use/abuse on them, they also have a limit to how much power they can handle reliably... Whereas the VCE will eliminate that issue.

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I'm a bit of an odd case as I have one of Marios upgraded VCs but I'm running basically stock power and have no plans to change that.

My next stupid question, is there a benefit to go with this and leave the front open vs that shaft somebody makes (I want to say Agile Performance?) that locks out the center and uses the VC to make the front limited slip? I'm assuming leaving the front open would be beneficial for street driving in parking lots and such.
Not exactly sure but since a VC essentially locks to keep both ends spinning at the same speed, I would imagine a VC as a front diff being much like driving a truck with a locker front diff on dry pavement... Fine in a straight line but binding and scrubbing and skipping when steering and turning regardless of speed. I think the Agile shaft is good for gravel rally stuff where turn-in and rotation are heavily influenced by the hand-brake.
Just my 2 cents

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Without a VC there will be greater shock to the center differential. Power is transmitted from the tranny to the center diff then the vc acts like a lsd between the front and rear. The center will eat itself...my 2 cents
 

MWP

New member
It's great this option exists, but it's not for me either.

These will be great for gravel rally and dedicated 1/4 mile cars, but not much else.
 

RedCelicaTRD

Moderator
That’s what happened on Trevor’s car when he locked the viscous coupler. He drives his car quite a bit so it’s not really clear if it was the high power level by itself that blew up the center diff or if it was caused by the locked coupler. He no longer has a locked coupler, but I think he blew another transmission later that had a stock coupler.

However, there are a few other cars with locked couplers that are more drag racing only and don’t see street time that seem to have better transmission reliability then Trevor did.
 
Well.... I've taken everyone's input, pros and cons, spoken to some DSM/Evo folks and I even reached out to Robert Fuller of RobiSpec (I'm sure most know of his reputation with setting up AWD track cars, mostly Evos, and their performance speaks volumes)... The general consensus is that a locked VC or VCE will hurt my race car more than it will help it's performance. I'm still going to see how this group buy feeler pans out, including other forums as well but.... and a it's a big BUT...
I may have an actual VC refurb upgrade for us all!
In my unrelenting quest I found a company that specializes in upgraded VC's for the crowd of 4x4 off-road racers and rock crawlers. I am shipping a complete VC to them next week and the owner sounded very confident over the phone about being able to reliably upgrade the existing units. Provided the internal plates aren't fried.
I'll keep all posted once I know it's a viable option for us and whoever's interested can contact them directly.
Sound good?

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