Please help me rid of this notchy shifting

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Re: Please help me rid of this notchy shifting

Postby alltrac801 » Sat Feb 08, 2020 6:12 pm

oh and ive never been able to down shift from 2nd to 1st while going over like 2 mph without it grinding.
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1991 Toyota Celica All-Trac Black (163,000 miles)
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Re: Please help me rid of this notchy shifting

Postby lalojamesliz1 » Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:05 pm

93celicaconv wrote:
lalojamesliz1 wrote:My original st185 trans failed. I replaced it with a st205 trans

Was your ST205 trans rebuilt, or have the synchros replaced, prior to you installing it? Why did your ST185 trans fail?

Just separated it from the gen3 engine, drained oil, replaced axle and driveshaft seal then installed engine back in car and filled with oil.
I want to say I asked Ryan maroszek (badnews st185) on youtube and I told him the symptoms and he said it was a shift fork. I can't remember who it was for sure.
I just wasn't able to get it in gear while driving home and I was hearing light grinding noise while in idle randomly. That noise caused my idle to drop rpms
91 Celica all-trac gen3 swap (small-med $$$ sponge)
69 mustang 408w (large $$$ sponge)
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Re: Please help me rid of this notchy shifting

Postby lalojamesliz1 » Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:42 pm

alltrac801 wrote:oh and ive never been able to down shift from 2nd to 1st while going over like 2 mph without it grinding.


I'm trying to be extra careful when I have to downshift into 1st because I worry about the cables too. It seems to downshift fine into 3rd and 2nd. It just feels notchy going into 2nd and going into 3rd is like it gets caught on the edge of something.

I ordered a new master cylinder for the clutch last night and I should be able to install it by Thursday I hope. I'm still debating on buying a st205 shifter to see if it will help but I don't know if it will make much of a difference.
91 Celica all-trac gen3 swap (small-med $$$ sponge)
69 mustang 408w (large $$$ sponge)
08 sequoia 5.7L
14 avalon
02 taco dbl cab V6 turd
and a 2 car garage :shoots:
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Re: Please help me rid of this notchy shifting

Postby underscore » Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:43 pm

What clutch assembly and throwout bearing do you have? Was it changed with the trans?

Also I know access down there is terrible but can you have someone press the clutch pedal all the way down and then see if you can pry the clutch fork any further?
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Re: Please help me rid of this notchy shifting

Postby lalojamesliz1 » Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:16 pm

underscore wrote:What clutch assembly and throwout bearing do you have? Was it changed with the trans?

Also I know access down there is terrible but can you have someone press the clutch pedal all the way down and then see if you can pry the clutch fork any further?


I have the aisin clutch assembly with a resurfaced oem flywheel. The throw out bearing is a oem Toyota bearing. Yes it was installed with the trans like 3k miles ago I don't remember the part number but I'll find out if you want. I got it from 1stpartstoyota .
My son just left somewhere but when he gets back I'll try to check the movement. Can the fork pop off the ball socket from doing this? My car has about 158k miles btw
Last edited by lalojamesliz1 on Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
91 Celica all-trac gen3 swap (small-med $$$ sponge)
69 mustang 408w (large $$$ sponge)
08 sequoia 5.7L
14 avalon
02 taco dbl cab V6 turd
and a 2 car garage :shoots:
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Re: Please help me rid of this notchy shifting

Postby Andy » Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:19 pm

Be sure your "Sugar Cube" is not dirty and or gummed up...
it will make the shifting crappy...
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Re: Please help me rid of this notchy shifting

Postby Junctrac » Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:14 pm

Apparently there are some different size clutch slave and master cylinder sizes throughout the generations and if they get mismatched would cause problems:

viewtopic.php?t=52793

Im going to look into this myself as im having similar issues and nothing has helped yet.
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Re: Please help me rid of this notchy shifting

Postby lalojamesliz1 » Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:35 pm

Junctrac wrote:Apparently there are some different size clutch slave and master cylinder sizes throughout the generations and if they get mismatched would cause problems:

viewtopic.php?t=52793

Im going to look into this myself as im having similar issues and nothing has helped yet.


Nice find man! I've always had to press the pedal to the floor but even with the original trans..... :shrug:
Now I'm thinking it has to be the master cylinder seal not being 100%
I think I still have the st205 slave cylinder i got with the swap. If I do I'll measure it. I need to look into that extended rod since my rod might not be long enough :doh: :P
91 Celica all-trac gen3 swap (small-med $$$ sponge)
69 mustang 408w (large $$$ sponge)
08 sequoia 5.7L
14 avalon
02 taco dbl cab V6 turd
and a 2 car garage :shoots:
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Re: Please help me rid of this notchy shifting

Postby lalojamesliz1 » Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:36 pm

Any advice on bleeding the new master cylinder guys?
I just ordered a new hose for it too
91 Celica all-trac gen3 swap (small-med $$$ sponge)
69 mustang 408w (large $$$ sponge)
08 sequoia 5.7L
14 avalon
02 taco dbl cab V6 turd
and a 2 car garage :shoots:
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Re: Please help me rid of this notchy shifting

Postby 93celicaconv » Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:54 pm

lalojamesliz1 wrote:Any advice on bleeding the new master cylinder guys?

Rebuilt or new master cylinders typically come with plastic fittings that a small dia. clear tube connects to, which is long enough to run the opposite end into the reservoir. So withe the reservoir full and the master cylinder installed, but the brake lines not yet connected, one slowly pumps the brake pedal and slowly releases, and continues to do so until no air bubbles are ejected from the master. Once bled, remove the temporary bleeders and reconnect the regular brake lines (followed by bleeding the individual brake lines, of course).
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Re: Please help me rid of this notchy shifting

Postby lalojamesliz1 » Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:17 am

93celicaconv wrote:
lalojamesliz1 wrote:Any advice on bleeding the new master cylinder guys?

Rebuilt or new master cylinders typically come with plastic fittings that a small dia. clear tube connects to, which is long enough to run the opposite end into the reservoir. So withe the reservoir full and the master cylinder installed, but the brake lines not yet connected, one slowly pumps the brake pedal and slowly releases, and continues to do so until no air bubbles are ejected from the master. Once bled, remove the temporary bleeders and reconnect the regular brake lines (followed by bleeding the individual brake lines, of course).


Great. Thanks man
91 Celica all-trac gen3 swap (small-med $$$ sponge)
69 mustang 408w (large $$$ sponge)
08 sequoia 5.7L
14 avalon
02 taco dbl cab V6 turd
and a 2 car garage :shoots:
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Re: Please help me rid of this notchy shifting

Postby lalojamesliz1 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:00 pm

Well I replaced the master cylinder and it seems like it has improved but it's not completely gone. I set the linkage rod so it has the smallest amount of slack and I bled the hell out of the clutch line to be 100% sure it had no air. I was going to replace the hydraulic hose for it but after seeing it on the car, that's a larger project for another day The hose looks fine from the outside.
I need to drive it more but right now I saw too many police to want to cruise around. Plus the school buses are dropping off kids and will be for a while. Another time.
So what options are left guys? New shift cables and extended push rod or something right? Anything else before I can just accept that it can be my transmission? It still works fine but I just wanted it in worry free condition until I learn how to work on it or my original transmission. I haven't abused this transmission as in launching the car or used it to slow down by downshifting.
91 Celica all-trac gen3 swap (small-med $$$ sponge)
69 mustang 408w (large $$$ sponge)
08 sequoia 5.7L
14 avalon
02 taco dbl cab V6 turd
and a 2 car garage :shoots:
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Re: Please help me rid of this notchy shifting

Postby 93celicaconv » Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:55 pm

Let's check the cables. If cables are faulty, it will feel the same whether driving or parked, engine running or not. With car parked and engine not running, does it shift easily / normally?
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Re: Please help me rid of this notchy shifting

Postby lalojamesliz1 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:27 pm

93celicaconv wrote:Let's check the cables. If cables are faulty, it will feel the same whether driving or parked, engine running or not. With car parked and engine not running, does it shift easily / normally?


I just checked, it goes into gears fine.
91 Celica all-trac gen3 swap (small-med $$$ sponge)
69 mustang 408w (large $$$ sponge)
08 sequoia 5.7L
14 avalon
02 taco dbl cab V6 turd
and a 2 car garage :shoots:
lalojamesliz1
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Posts: 458
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:03 pm
Location: Bakersfield, CA

Re: Please help me rid of this notchy shifting

Postby 93celicaconv » Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:28 am

I would say this rules out shift cables as a source of the symptoms.

Let's now look at the clutch system (clutch pedal through the throughout bearing). If there is a problem with the clutch system, it should be noticeable when the car is parked but engine running this time. Since we determined the shift cables/linkages are working properly, but we don't want to load the synchros right now, trying to shift gears when using the clutch with the engine running is the way to do just that.

Engine running, shifter not in gear, clutch released, the clutch should be spinning and the input shaft to the trans freewheeling. Step on the clutch and shift quickly into 1st - any issue? Shift back to neutral, release clutch. Then step on the clutch and shift quickly into 2nd - any issue? Repeat for all forward gears and also repeat for reverse. Don't let the car move in gear with the engine running. How does the shifting into gear feel now? Any particular gear causing more problems than another?

Actually, to add to this, if you have some grinding when trying to shift into reverse, that is a clear indication the clutch is not releasing the flywheel properly. That gets us to review the clutch system. And if this is the symptom, and its been like this for anything longer than a very short period of time, most likely many of your synchros are worn and damaged, because the synchros are doing more that trying to match speeds of moving gears in the trans of which one set should be free-wheeling - if that one set is still being driven by the engine, the synchros needs to work much, much harder and wear much, much faster.
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