Can anyone help, please? Timing issue. .

FC Zach

Active member
Does anyone know and can tell me what the ignition timing is at idle without bridging terminals E1 & TE1? It might sound like an odd question but when I bridge those two terminals there's no audible change in idle or timing so I'm setting the ignition timing blindly and it's way off, so off that it's barely drivable. . . This is my daily driver so I'd like to get it sorted out as quickly as possible, thanks in advance.
 
Previously, when you bridged E1 & TE1, did your check engine light flash consistently?

If no, then your bridging process failed, and you never actually grounded TE1 properly.
 
And what what the timing result of #1 cylinder referencing the timing mark on the crankshaft pulley?

For reference, with the bridge no longer connecting TE1 to E1, the resulting timing range is between 12 - 21 deg BTDC (so is has a dynamic range of 2 - 11 deg further advance from a control perspective) if the bridged timing was right on the mark (10 deg BTDC).
 

FC Zach

Active member
I'm not sure what your asking or saying. . . I'm wanting to know what as-found timing might be when the diagnostic connections are out of the equation. Whatever I have mine set to isn't correct so I need someone's reading (as I mentioned) to use as a reference.
 

r-town

Member
FC Zach":1erdzxjc said:
I'm not sure what your asking or saying. . . I'm wanting to know what as-found timing might be when the diagnostic connections are out of the equation. Whatever I have mine set to isn't correct so I need someone's reading (as I mentioned) to use as a reference.

According to the BGB when you remove the short between terminals TE1 and E1 the ignition timing should be 12-21deg BTDC @ idle. It says the timing mark moves in a range between 12deg and 21deg.

EDIT: Sorry, did not see that 93celicaconv provided this info already.

When I did my timing belt I jumped TE1 and E1 and turned the distributor until my tachometer saw 10deg BTDC. Unfortunately, I did not rechecked after I removed the jumper. I simply took it for a test drive.

On my first attempt, I forgot to plug a connector below the throttle body, and the car ran like shit. I couldn't get the ignition timing right. Only got it right after I noticed I had a connector unplugged.
 

FC Zach

Active member
That's what I need to know, thanks! *I recently removed my TB as well, I'm going to check for any forgotten connections later.
 

sefiroxx

New member
You can't set it without the bypass. The ecu is constantly adjusting fuel and timing to match air and respond to o2. You'll get close but likely will be off 2-4.
 
sefiroxx":2oke2xgr said:
You can't set it without the bypass. The ecu is constantly adjusting fuel and timing to match air and respond to o2. You'll get close but likely will be off 2-4.
Zach previously said he bridged TE1 & E1, and verified the check engine light was flashing, which denotes the ignition is ready for checking timing against a 10 deg BTDC target. Or did I misinterpret Zach's response earlier?
 

FC Zach

Active member
93celicaconv":1ro6a0ss said:
Zach previously said he bridged TE1 & E1, and verified the check engine light was flashing, which denotes the ignition is ready for checking timing against a 10 deg BTDC target. Or did I misinterpret Zach's response earlier?

"It might sound like an odd question but when I bridge those two terminals there's no audible change in idle or timing"

Misinterpret? Yes and no. . Yes I connected it properly but no it did not function as it should.
 
FC Zach":1o8cimyv said:
93celicaconv":1o8cimyv said:
Zach previously said he bridged TE1 & E1, and verified the check engine light was flashing, which denotes the ignition is ready for checking timing against a 10 deg BTDC target. Or did I misinterpret Zach's response earlier?

"It might sound like an odd question but when I bridge those two terminals there's no audible change in idle or timing"

Misinterpret? Yes and no. . Yes I connected it properly but no it did not function as it should.
Are you sure it didn't function? What is the timing without bridging? Knowing the answer to this question will tell you if it worked and all is good, or if it did not work.
 

FC Zach

Active member
93celicaconv":10ae62y0 said:
Are you sure it didn't function?

Yes I am sure, I checked after pulling the connection and there was no difference in timing. . . As I feel I've stated multiple times already.
 
There isn't going to me a noticeable change in idle after you time it properly, then pull the jumper out of the ports. Maybe a slight change, but many people wouldn't notice it much.

I guess I don't understand why you don't wish to check where the timing mark is without the jumper in place. As some have said, it should likely be in the 12-16 deg BTDC range without the jumper when idling on a warm engine.
 

FC Zach

Active member
93celicaconv":38vlkf5s said:
I guess I don't understand why you don't wish to check where the timing mark is without the jumper in place. As some have said, it should likely be in the 12-16 deg BTDC range without the jumper when idling on a warm engine.

My God. . I did, as I've said already. There is no change.
 

Magroo

New member
I'm likely no help with this since I'm not using the stock ecu anymore, but I have my timing set for 16*btdc at idle. When setting up the megasquirt I lock timing to 10*btdc and adjust my dizzy to match it on the crack pulley.

My timing floats between 14-16* depending on intake air temp and afr.

It seems most happy at 14-16 and I've moved it as low as 10 and as high as 20 at idle just to see what the engine wants.
 

alltracman78

Active member
Oh boy! The fun part of online diagnosis... :p

If you can't adjust your ignition timing to 10* BTDC with TE1 and E1 bridged then either your ECU or igniter is bad. It might be the capacitors in the ECU blowing. Seems to be a pretty common problem on these as they get older.
There are other less likely things like your crank pulley is damaged or TE1 or E1 isn't connecting properly (if your CEl is flashing they are connecting properly) or your cam timing is way off or somethings wrong with your distributor.

As I think someone else already mentioned, without TE1 and E1 bridged there's no set timing. It jumps around depending what the ECU sees. That's why you have to put the ECU into check mode, so it won't adjust timing.
IIRC there's more than 1 timing mark on the timing belt cover. I don't remember what degree the other markings are though. I guess if all else fails as long as you're between 10 and 21* at idle things are at least close to ok? I would definitely be concerned if you can't make it set timing though....

I do have one other suggestion. Since you have a 92, try jumping TE2 (yes TE2) and E1 and see if that gets you anywhere. Also, see if you have any codes while it's bridged. It also wouldn't hurt to drive around with it bridged to see if it comes up with anything (this puts it in a more sensitive diagnostic mode).
 

FC Zach

Active member
alltracman78":3hm4bp3f said:
Oh boy! The fun part of online diagnosis... :p

If you can't adjust your ignition timing to 10* BTDC with TE1 and E1 bridged then either your ECU or igniter is bad. It might be the capacitors in the ECU blowing. Seems to be a pretty common problem on these as they get older.

I do plan on trying my spare (repaired) ECU when I get back in town. . Although my current ECU is repaired as well, I've seen enough odd things happen in the past that I've suspected this as a possibility.

alltracman78":3hm4bp3f said:
I do have one other suggestion. Since you have a 92, try jumping TE2 (yes TE2) and E1 and see if that gets you anywhere. Also, see if you have any codes while it's bridged. It also wouldn't hurt to drive around with it bridged to see if it comes up with anything (this puts it in a more sensitive diagnostic mode).

Great suggestion, thanks!
 
My god - just trying to help. I like seeing data - the numbers. What are the values. If you can't state those result values, I'll stay out of this the rest of the way.
 
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